2026-05-27
Ud 4.1 Meghiyasutta
See Ud 4.1 discussed at 2026-05-07 (spiritual companions) and 2025-07-29 (jhāna practice).
"Khuddā vitakkā sukhumā vitakkā, / Anugatā manaso uppilāvā;
Ete avidvā manaso vitakke, / Hurā huraṁ dhāvati bhantacitto.
Ete ca vidvā manaso vitakke, / Ātāpiyo saṁvaratī satīmā;
Anugate manaso uppilāve, / Asesamete pajahāsi buddho"ti.
| khudda 2 | (adj) inferior; base adj |
| vitakka 1 | (masc) thought; reflection; pondering [vi + √takk + a] masc, from vitakketi |
| sukhuma 1 | (adj) fine; subtle; refined adj |
| anugata 2 | (pp) followed; conforming (to) [anu + √gam + ta] pp of anugacchati |
| manas | (masc) mind; mental faculty; intellect [√man + as] masc, mano group, from maññati |
| uppilāva | (masc) (something which causes) excitement; stirring up (of) [ud + pilava > pilāva + *a] |
| avidita | (pp) unknown; not realised [na + √vid + ita], pp of na vedeti |
| avidvant | (masc) fool; who is ignorant; ignoramus [na > a + √vid + vant] |
| hurā | (ind) from here; from this world; from this life ind, adv |
| huraṁ | (ind) there; in another world ind, adv |
| dhāvati | (pr) runs; races; sprints; flies (to) [dhāva + ti] pr |
| bhantacitta | (adj) with a wandering mind; with runaway thoughts; mentally out of control |
| ātāpiya | (adj) energetic; zealous; exerting oneself adj |
| saṁvaratī | (pr) restrains; controls [saṁ + vara + ti > saṁvaratī] pr, irreg form of saṁvarati |
| satīmant | (adj) mindful; fully present; attentive [sati + mant] adj, from sati |
| asesa | (adj) complete; without remainder [na > a + √sis > ses + *a] adj, from na sissati |
| pajahāsi | (aor) gave up; left; abandoned; let go (of) [pa + jaha + āsi] aor of pajahati |
Definition of name-and-form and contact
(MN 9) Vedanā, saññā, cetanā, phasso, manasikāro --- idaṁ vuccatāvuso, nāmaṁ;
cattāri ca mahābhūtāni, catunnañca mahābhūtānaṁ upādāyarūpaṁ --- idaṁ vuccatāvuso, rūpaṁ.
Iti idañca nāmaṁ idañca rūpaṁ --- idaṁ vuccatāvuso, nāmarūpaṁ.Viññāṇasamudayā nāmarūpasamudayo, viññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodho, ayameva ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo
nāmarūpanirodhagāminī paṭipadā, seyyathidaṁ --- sammādiṭṭhi ... sammāsamādhi.
| cetanā | (fem) intending; willing [√cit > cet + *anā] fem, abstr, act, from ceteti |
| phusati | (pr) touches; contacts; feels; experiences [√phus + a + ti] |
| phassa | (masc) sense contact; sense impingement; sense impression [√phus > phass + a] |
| manasikāra | (masc) attention (to); bringing-to-mind; noticing [manasi + kāra] |
| vuccati | (pr) is said to be; is called [vucca + ti] pr, pass of vacati |
| mahābhūta | (nt) four great elements [mahā + bhūta] nt, comp |
| upādāyarūpa | (nt) derived materiality (of) [upādāya + rūpa] nt, comp |
(MN 18) Cakkhuñcāvuso, paṭicca rūpe ca uppajjati cakkhuviññāṇaṁ, tiṇṇaṁ saṅgati phasso ...
Manañcāvuso, paṭicca dhamme ca uppajjati manoviññāṇaṁ, tiṇṇaṁ saṅgati phasso,
phassapaccayā vedanā, yaṁ vedeti taṁ sañjānāti, yaṁ sañjānāti taṁ vitakketi,
yaṁ vitakketi taṁ papañceti, yaṁ papañceti
tatonidānaṁ purisaṁ papañcasaññāsaṅkhā samudācaranti
atītānāgatapaccuppannesu manoviññeyyesu dhammesu.
| paṭicca 1 | (ger) dependent; depending (on); because (of); [pati + √i + tya] ger of pacceti |
| uppajjati 1 | (pr) appears; arises; occurs; takes place (for or in) [ud + pajja + ti] pr |
| tiṇṇaṁ | (card) of three [ti + ānaṁ] card, masc & nt gen pl of ti |
| saṅgati 1 | (fem) union; coming together; meeting (of) [saṁ + √gam + ti] |
| vedeti 1 | (pr) feels; experiences; senses [vede + ti] pr |
| sañjānāti | (pr) knows; knows as; perceives; conceives; recognizes [saṁ + jānā + ti] pr |
| vitakketi | (pr) thinks (about); reflects (on); ponders (over) [vi + takke + ti] pr |
| papañceti | (pr) proliferates; forms various opinions (about) [pa + pañce + ti] pr |
| tatonidānaṁ | (ind) because of that; for that reason [tato + nidāna + aṁ] |
| purisa 1 | (masc) man; male; person masc |
| papañcasaññāsaṅkhā | (fem) proliferation of opinions, concepts and constructs; |
| papañca | (masc) various opinions; proliferation; endless conceptualization; |
| lit. expanding; spreading | |
| samudācarati 2.1 | (pr) overwhelms; assails; assaults; (comm) occurs [saṁ + ud + ā + cara + ti] pr |
| atītānāgatapaccuppanna | (adj) in the past, the future and the present [atīta + anāgata + paccuppanna] |
| manoviññeyya | (adj) knowable; known by the mind [mano + viññeyya] adj, comp |
(See further in the discussion at 2025-03-05)
DN 11 Kevaṭṭasutta
Atha kho so, kevaṭṭa, bhikkhu maṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi, ekamantaṁ nisinno kho, kevaṭṭa,
so bhikkhu maṁ etadavoca: 'kattha nu kho, bhante, ime cattāro mahābhūtā aparisesā nirujjhanti,
seyyathidaṁ --- pathavīdhātu āpodhātu tejodhātu vāyodhātū'ti?
| maṁ 1 | (pron) me (object) [amha + aṁ] pron, 1st acc sg of ahaṁ |
| abhivādetvā | (abs) having bowed down; having paid high respect (to) abs of abhivādeti |
| ekamantaṁ 1 | (ind) to one side; aside [ekaṁ + anta + aṁ] |
| nisīdi 1 | (aor) sat (on); sat down (in) [ni + sīda + i] aor of nisīdati |
| etadavoca | (aor) said this (to) [etad + avoca] aor, comp vb |
| kattha 1.1 | (ind) where? [ka + ttha] ind, adv, interr, from ka |
| nu | (ind) (adds a question mark) surely?; didn't?; wouldn't?; which? |
| mahābhūtā | (masc) primary states; great elements; [mahā + bhūta + ā] |
| dhātu | (fem) state; property; condition; element [√dhā + tu] |
| √dhā | place, support |
| aparisesa | (adj) without remainder; complete adj, from na sesa |
| nirujjhati | (pr) dissolves; finishes; stops; ceases; vanishes [ni + rujjha + ti] |
| pathavīdhātu | (fem) solids; solid state; earth element [pathavī + dhātu] |
| āpodhātu | (fem) liquids; liquid state; (comm) element of cohesion [āpo + dhātu] |
| tejodhātu | (fem) fiery state [tejo + dhātu] |
| vāyodhātu | (fem) gas; gaseous state [vāyo + dhātu] |
Dhātu: modes of behaviour. See Wettimuny, Ch 1. Grasping https://its-essential-meaning.github.io/
... sāmuddikā vāṇijā tīradassiṁ sakuṇaṁ gahetvā ... Evameva kho tvaṁ, bhikkhu,
yato yāva brahmalokā pariyesamāno imassa pañhassa veyyākaraṇaṁ nājjhagā,
atha mamaññeva santike paccāgato. Na kho eso, bhikkhu, pañho evaṁ pucchitabbo:
'kattha nu kho, bhante, ime cattāro mahābhūtā aparisesā nirujjhanti, seyyathidaṁ ---
pathavīdhātu āpodhātu tejodhātu vāyodhātū'ti?
| sāmuddika | (adj) seafaring; ocean-going [samudda + *ika] adj, from samudda |
| vāṇija | (masc) trader; dealer; merchant [vaṇija > vāṇija + *a] masc, from vaṇija |
| tīradassī 2 | (adj) shore-spotting; land-sighting [tīra + dassī] adj, comp |
| sakuṇa | (masc) bird masc |
| gahetvā 1 | (abs) having taken; having held [gahe + tvā] abs of gaṇhāti |
| evameva | (sandhi) similarly; in the same way; so too; just so [evaṁ + eva] sandhi, adv + ind |
| tvaṁ 1 | (pron) you (subject) [tumha + aṁ > tuvaṁ > tvaṁ] pron, 2nd nom sg of tumha |
| yato 1 | (ind) from where; from which; wherever [ya + to] ind, adv, abl sg of ya |
| yāva 1 | (ind) as long as; as far as; so much so; up to; until; from... to ind, adv |
| pariyesamāna | (prp) searching; seeking; looking (for) [pari + [y] + esa + māna] prp of pariyesati |
| imassa 1 | (pron) for this; for him [ima + ssa] pron, masc dat sg of ima |
| pañha 1 | (nt) question; enquiry [√pañh + a] nt |
| veyyākaraṇa | (nt) answer; reply [vi > vy > veyy + ā + √kar + aṇa + *a] |
| nājjhagā | (imperf) did not get; did not obtain; did not find; imperf of na adhigacchati |
| mamaññeva | (sandhi) just me [mamaṁ + eva] sandhi, pron + ind |
| santike 1 | (ind) to; in the presence (of); near (to); nearby; [santika + e] |
| paccāgata 1 | (pp) returned; went back (to) [pati > paty > pacc + ā + √gam + ta] pp of paccāgacchati |
| eso | (pron) this; this thing; this person; he; it [esa + o] pron, masc nom sg of eta |
| pucchitabba | (ptp) should be asked; could be asked [√pucch + itabba] ptp of pucchati |
Evañca kho eso, bhikkhu, pañho pucchitabbo:
'Kattha āpo ca pathavī, / tejo vāyo na gādhati;
Kattha dīghañca rassañca, / aṇuṁ thūlaṁ subhāsubhaṁ;
Kattha nāmañca rūpañca, / asesaṁ uparujjhatī'ti.
| gādhati | (pr) finds a footing; is well grounded; finds a support [gādha + ti] pr |
| dīgha 1 | (adj) long (in space or time); tall; deep adj |
| rassa 1 | (adj) short; small adj |
| aṇu 1 | (adj) small; tiny; minute; minuscule adj |
| thūla 1 | (adj) massive; large [√thūl + a] adj |
| subhāsubha | (adj) beautiful and ugly; attractive and repulsive [subha + asubha] adj, comp |
| asesaṁ | (ind) completely; entirely; totally; without remnant ind, adv, acc sg of na sesa |
| uparujjhati | (pr) is stopped; is ended; is finished [upa + rujjha + ti] pr, pass of uparundhati |
Tatra veyyākaraṇaṁ bhavati:
'Viññāṇaṁ anidassanaṁ, / anantaṁ sabbatopabhaṁ;
Ettha āpo ca pathavī, / tejo vāyo na gādhati.
Ettha dīghañca rassañca, / aṇuṁ thūlaṁ subhāsubhaṁ;Ettha nāmañca rūpañca, / asesaṁ uparujjhati;
Viññāṇassa nirodhena, / etthetaṁ uparujjhatī'"ti.
| tatra 1 | (ind) there; in that place [ta + tra] ind, adv, from ta |
| bhavati 2 | (pr) exists (for) [bhava + ti] pr |
| anidassana | (adj) attribute-less; non-manifesting; sign-less; featureless; invisible; epithet of Nibbāna |
| [na > a + ni + dassa + ana] | |
| ananta | (adj) infinite; endless; boundless; without limit [na > an + anta] adj, from na anta |
| sabbatopabha | (adj) radiant in every direction; luminous all around; [sabbato + pabha] adj, comp |
| ettha 1 | (ind) here; in this place; in this case; in this regard [ima + ttha] |
| etaṁ 1 | (pron) this; this thing (subject) [eta + aṁ] pron, nt nom sg of eta |
Different assumptions in the question:
What exists? (tetralemma) VS How does it arise and cease? (dependent origination). See also: Sermon 15
MN 1 Mūlapariyāyasutta: Difference in understanding of experience in the case of the puthujjana, sekha, and the arahant
Ud 1.10 Bāhiyasutta
Tasmātiha te, bāhiya, evaṁ sikkhitabbaṁ: 'diṭṭhe diṭṭhamattaṁ bhavissati, sute sutamattaṁ bhavissati, mute mutamattaṁ bhavissati, viññāte viññātamattaṁ bhavissatī'ti.
... Yato tvaṁ, bāhiya, na tattha, tato tvaṁ, bāhiya, nevidha na huraṁ na ubhayamantarena. Esevanto dukkhassā'ti.
(Ñāṇananda) Well then, Bāhiya, you had better train yourself thus. In the seen there will be just the seen, in the heard there will be just the heard, in the sensed there will be just the sensed, in the cognized there will be just the cognized.
... And when to you, Bāhiya, there will be in the seen just the seen, in the heard just the heard, in the sensed just the sensed, in the cognized just the cognized, then, Bāhiya, you are not by it. And when you are not by it, you are not in it. And when, Bāhiya, you are not in it, then, Bāhiya, you are neither here, nor there, nor in between. This itself is the end of suffering.
"Yattha āpo ca pathavī, / tejo vāyo na gādhati ...
Na saññasaññī ...
(See further in the discussion at 2025-03-05)
Translation by Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda in Nibbāna Sermon 27:
Snp 4.11 (SC, SSP) Kalahavivādasutta
Na saññasaññī na visaññasaññī,
Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī;
Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,
Saññānidānā hi papañcasaṅkhā.He is not conscious of normal perception,
nor is he unconscious,
He is not devoid of perception,
nor has he rescinded perception,
It is to one thus constituted
that form ceases to exist,
For reckonings through prolificity
have perception as their source.
Here the last line states a crucial fact. Reckonings, designations and the like, born of prolificity, are traceable to perception in the last analysis. That is to say, all that is due to perception.
Another reason why form has received special attention here, is the fact that it is a precondition for contact. When there is form, there is the notion of resistance. That is already implicit in the question that comes in a verse at the beginning of the Kalahavivādasutta:
Kismiṁ vibhūte na phusanti phassā,
when what is not there, do touches not touch?
The answer to that query is:
Rūpe vibhūte na phusanti phassā,
when form is not there, touches do not touch.